But there are some questions you might not want to ask your local shop or riding buddies. Go ride it. Any feedback on C-Bear vs. Kogel? No flaming - you are totally correct; I just wish when I bought my bike someone would have told me I could have saved $300 and two months without my bike by buying it at a shop that new what they were doing. Michael, thanks for the other options I missed. Pretty tasty I think. If any relative movement does occur between the cup/bearing and the frame, however small, this will cause wear resulting in permanent damage to the frame and your BB will always creak! This extra width reduces the load on the bearings. The idea that, Press fit bikes just creak is preposterous. For comparison, the testing showed the least efficient was Shimano Acera one of Shimanos cheapest component families, so perhaps not the fairest comparison which consumed 1.370 watts. Even as the forward march of technology makes our bikes more and more advanced, bicycles still rely on one of the most fundamental mechanical structures: the bearing. Ryan specializes in dirt-centric bikes, with gravel being a key highlight. In addition, ceramic bearings cant be sealed due to the need for regular maintenance. Op haar Instagram-account schreef Jet: "Ons leven had wat saaier kunnen zijn. Hope press fit BBs have a threaded center tube that pulls the two BB cups together to eliminate this problem. For sure. Back by popular demand, the general all-things Road forum! What you want is someone who immediately takes your bike out for a test ride after asking a few questions that may be in their mind. The only real big noticeable difference between the two is the bearing clearance. The second reason for a creaking Trek BB90/BB95 bike is the typical steel on steel interface between spindle and bearings. Creaks can always be fixed, and if not, such as with a cracked frame, you can at least know for certain what was causing the issue when you go through the diagnostic process. Full ceramic bearings are available on the market but the cost is driven up to levels of absurdity. However, it costs three times as much as the Hawk Racing bearing. The ceramic balls also insulate the steel races, says Sollenberger. Cervelo is currently assessing the frame (with all the creaking) for warranty replacement so the install is on hold for just one week. Light oil lubricants allow the ceramic bearings to glide smoothly without the damage or running dry or the resistance of grease. I always check the skewers/thru-axles first because that is an A-numero-uno place for a creak to hide. Why opt for ceramic headset bearings? I found both bbinfinite and C-bear. I am doing a new build, and received the Shimano BB in the kit, wondering if I should drop $150 to $200 for the BBInfinite. BBinfinite debuted last May with a unique, one-piece pressfit bottom bracket design intended to remedy any intolerances in your frame, ensuring smooth, quiet cranks. Other bearings are unsealed, and require regular maintenance to keep the bearing free of contaminants and operating smoothly. Choosing the right bearings for your bike. Keep test riding as the process continues. For most riders, however, the real-world advantages of ceramic bearings are difficult to stack up against the added expense. If creaking is confirmed, move on to swapping out the pedals for regular old platforms, no clips or cleats. kogelschule.de. I'm sure the thought was, "Why not just slide the spindle right into the bearing, what could be easier". Some manufacturers will continue to pursue the press fit designs due to the advantages listed earlier. Ard had three goals with Kogel Bearings: Manufacturers havent made this a joyous task, as for a while there, a new bottom bracket standard was invented on an almost weekly basis. kogel sells only high-quality ceramic bearings. I asked them how they could claim they were the fastest, they replied that they haven't officially released any numbers but their system was worth a 10% increase in efficiency from any other bb system, which they said was equivalent to 20 watts for an hour. Using aluminum cups and high quality bearings is a given. Ceramic bearings started life as industrial workhorses. You will find a selection of bearings, tools and bottom brackets. Your beloved bike is ruining your mojo like a puppy peeing on your favorite shoes. That small buffer allows us to turns frowns upside down when we get warranty claims. If you do you will fall into the trap of target fixation. Climbing, Descending & More! While that sounds great, plastic is just not the best material to be loaded thousands of times on each ride. less watts? ABUS brings its AirDrop full-face helmet to North America, offering several clever safety features plus optional smart technology. How can we expect everything to work flawless if you imagine the forces we send down from our quads to the tiny contact surface between our races and ceramic balls. Head on over and find the Hawk Racing bottom bracket for your bike. As the gram scale shows above, the Kogel Bearings bottom bracket for BSA English thread weighs in at 87 grams, including the sleeve that sits between the two cups. Drive side = left is tight, right is loose. The second key component is the race. I generally use Finish Line Premium greasefor alloy or steel shells. I saw some info, that said the BBInfinite demo is a bit misleading, because under load the bearings perform differently and not that much better than the Shimano BB72-41B (?) Consistency = control = costs. For some, the time (and, potentially, money) spent servicing and maintaining bearings will be justified, but for others, it simply wont be. Hawk Racing sets the bar for steel alloy bearings. Check out our Kill That Creak blog for the full run down. Through precision machining we can cut our cups slightly larger than others: we cut our PF30 cups to the upper tolerance of the Press Fit 30 standard and discard any cups that are larger and would potentially void a frame warranty. After doing some research, bbinfinite will not work with the CAAD12 because of the internal cable routing for the front and rear mech's. In a BB30 or Press Fit 30 setup, the distance between the bearing seats is around 68mm. Kogel-orthopaedie.de. This step is optional for steel and alloy shells, but I prefer to wrap a thin layer of Teflon plumbing tape over the threads of each cup, ensuring the end of the tape follows the thread direction of the cup. Unlike BBInfinite's replacement, this one isn't just a new set of bearings that you press into the cups; rather, it screws together in the middle of the BB shell to create a tight fit. AS well, as others have said, aluminum cups and angular contact bearings help, OTOH I've installed a bunch with bog standard SRAM PF30 cups and bearings and they are on multiple seasons with no issues. Ceramic bearings perform the same function as conventional steel bearings, helping the moving parts of your bike turn with ease (we've got a full guide to bike bearings if you want to know more).. Always the test ride. Originally developed for industrial uses, ceramic bearings are made from a non-metallic ceramic compound called ceramic silicon nitride (Si2N4). I have been having issues with my P3 and I came across this new bb product after reading an article on bike rumor. We have still not touched on other component parts of a bottom bracket. MTB have long employed wider bottom bracket shells and crank axles so as to provide more clearance for fatter tyres and shedding mud. Or more a general impression and with labeling effects and any noises that seem to be from the BB get lumped into BB creaking. To best explain this, Ive made quotes directly from Kogels warranty page: When I started Kogel, I wanted it to be the company that I would love to be a customer of. Without steel on steel contact, corrosive wear can only occur when contamination is allowed to reside within the bearings for a prolonged amount of time, he continues. Priced at $US 174.99, they arent cheap, but quality costs. Do the angular contact bearings not care if they are out of alignment a bit? We're using cookies in case to provide best-possible user experience. I believe Wishbone is a chinese company? Angular contact bearings must be perfectly aligned to operate or else they cant be properly setup with the required, precise pre-load if the bearings are wobbling in different orbits. The bearing is made up of a few key parts. Stan Portus is BikeRadars content editor. Install each cup by hand, gently threading into the shell, ensuring there is engagement and no cross-threading happening. Talk to your local bike shop, give us a call, or contact us via the form at the bottom of the page. Above, this is what you see when the box is popped open. Maxime Brunand, head of product management at Mavic, sums up the drawbacks of ceramic bearings in one word: Cost., Like Gray and Sollenberger, Brunand says that ceramic bearings offer lower rolling resistance as well as increased lifespan, but he caveats this by saying thats on paper and not necessarily in real life, considering bearing brands, quality level and riding conditions., He also says that The gain of ceramic bearings versus good quality standard bearing is minimal, and that Good quality standard bearings are better than poor quality ceramic bearings., Sollenberger says it is possible that brands not using high-quality ceramic balls or adhering to the relevant manufacturing standards (meeting ISO 9001) will end up with bearings that do not hold up over time, will require heavier grease and seal selection, and overall perform below expectation.. Sports Hernia/Inguinal Disruption Surgery. The problem with press fit BB shells is really in the execution. Next there is the lubricant. With fully sealed bearings, there are also multiple levels of seal the provide greater protection against contaminants for those riding in dirty or wet conditions. In the beginning, an extra 5mm was added to the width of BSA . Note how a 1-piece module corrects the misalignment. . If there is something you cannot find or have a query with. Last (but certainly not least) in the discussion of ceramic bearings is the issue of price. From Wikipedia, The ABEC rating does not specify many critical factors, such as load handling capabilities, ball precision, materials, materialRockwell hardness, degree of ball and raceway polishing, noise, vibration, and lubricant. bottom brackets normally use bearings that are built for radial loads these dont work well with high compression, usually leads to brinelling and early failure of the bearings, normally manufactures dont encourage tightening of a bearing pre load with a tool for this reason. Prior to that, she was an Intern at the Mountain Bike Center of Scotland, and a Mountain Bike Coach and Leader in the Tweed Valley. Find out more about Ian Here BBInfinite Bottom Bracket Ceramitech Ceramic Bearings Unleash Your Performance with BBInfinite. However, they are also popular with many amateur riders seeking the ultimate performance upgrade, or riders particularly concerned with efficiency, such as those racing time trials. So, what exactly are the benefits that riders see in ceramic bearings? Lets assume what we have is one of those plastic BBs they cram into production bikes. Interested. Sign up to receive BikeRumor content direct to your inbox. But of course, you could do it cheaper (with less resistance) by just taking the grease out of your steel bearings. If, by fine, we mean a crank can rotate in it. The Kogel is $40 more than C-Bear. In theory, all press fit bottom brackets are great, but they suffer from a range of micro problems that lead to creaking and premature failures: The main reason why frame manufacturers choose press fit bottom brackets is to save weight and production costs. Lastly, there is the seal. JavaScript is disabled. Dry running bearings are used in industrial applications where there is very little load placed on them. Whilst my grease of choice features Teflon in its composition, I believe Teflon tape reduces the chances of creaks and other noises emanating from the bottom bracket shell. by Sammutd88 on Sat Oct 30, 2021 12:16 pm, by WorkonSunday on Tue Nov 02, 2021 10:46 am, by Attermann on Tue Nov 02, 2021 12:49 pm. Stating the obvious, ABEC 5 bearings fall into the middle. The ABEC-7 steel option is the cheapest at $200. Learn how your comment data is processed. City Bike? Sign in to manage your newsletter preferences. Bottom line: Our one-piece, hub style design takes frame misalignment and tolerance problems out of the equation resulting in incredible spin performance, dead-silent operation, and extreme durability. With Kogel, C-Bear, VCRC, etc is it possible to replace the bearings separately when they wear out rather than replacing the entire BB? Using aluminum cups and high quality bearings is a given. By signing up for email newsletters, you agree to BikeRumor's, Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window), Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window), Click to email a link to a friend (Opens in new window). Based in Innerleithen, Scotland, Jessie-May can often be seen riding the Glentress Trail Center, and its neighboring Enduro and Downhill Tracks. Once the bearings are cool, they are then exposed to roughly 30 days of grinding and lapping, a process that eliminates the mould lines and gets them even closer to the desired final size. Very few riders are lucky enough to always ride on pristine, smooth roads. Whilst I do ride the review bikes in dodgy weather, my Lynskey PRO GR is my official Plan B bike for those rides and races where mud could be a factor, especially if big tyre clearance is needed. [, Re: BBInfinite Bottom Brackets - Performance Skeptism [Tom A.] For this review we will focus on the dreaded creaking noise from the Pressfit30 bottom bracket and all its cousins. Also, while ceramic bearings do offer a weight saving (they can weigh 50 per cent less than steel bearings), the reduction in weight is almost completely negligible when viewed in the context of a whole bike. Since it is virtually impossible to cut threads in carbon, a threaded aluminum sleeve needs to be placed inside the bottom bracket shell for a BSA, ITA or T47 set up. These are the only two that I'm aware of that make BB30 to BB386 conversion bottom brackets. He is dedicated to making sure the Fit Werx differences are delivered daily and provides Fit Werx with corporate direction and is responsible for uniting our staff and initiatives. As more and more of the cycling masses look to advanced technology formerly seen in use only by the pros, the question arises of where the hard-earned money of the average cyclist should be spent. This will immediately rule out ceramic bearings for the majority of riders, who either dont seek the marginal savings ceramic bearings might offer, or simply place emphasis elsewhere. We call it Shut Up Grease in our office and it lives up to that name. Would you like to receive offers, updates and events from BikeRadar and its publisher Our Media Ltd (an Immediate Group Company)? In my mind there are three main choices: CeramicSpeed, Kogel and C-Bear Vastly different price points, CeramicSpeed being far more expensive than C-Bear, but is there really that much difference in quality? BB Infinite: This is coming from a guy who manufactures and sells a lot of press fit bottom brackets, so here it goes: It is probably not the bottom bracket creaking when you pedal your bike. Performance ceramic bearings have an enemy: grease. We reduce the diameter of the cup sightly for internal bearings to avoid compression. Creak is gone and seems to be very smooth, not a peep. Hope: In theory, a press fit BB can offer a number of advantages. Without doubt, bottom brackets are the unsung heroes of a bicycle. Thanks polpy Posts: 125 Currently using Wheels MFG Angular Contact version to accept the 30mm Rotor Cranks and it seems good. The bearings can be removed from the shell and serviced normally. Slather your grease of choice onto the bottom bracket shell threads (drive and non-drive side). Lubricants vary greatly in viscosity (thickness), finding varying points in a trade-off between bearing protection and lower friction. To me the most interesting thing is the very solid BBInfinite shell. I'm hoping the shop will let me take pictures. Giant Propel Advanced SL Red Etap 11s Easton EC90 wheels CeramicSpeed BB 6.5kg It may be a precautionary measure but should not be a rule, in our opinion. A bicycle is a complex assembly with myriad interfaces and a host of moving parts with a person on top whose dynamic movements flex and stress the entire thing this way and that. As a habit, Kogel ship a GXP washer with every 24mm spindle bottom bracket, but remains unused for cranksets with straight spindles by Shimano, Rotor, FSA, etc. transition-DOT-area-AT-slowtwitch-DOT-com. Save 30% + G-Form Pro X3 Knee Pads when you subscribe to MBUK magazine. The DUB MTB Crankset from $190 on Bbinfinite is available in February. Then, the powder is exposed to heat and additional compression for around 30 hours to condense the material again closer to the desired final measurements. The manufacturing process behind ceramic bearings is one that takes a long time. As an aside you could not use angular contact bearings in a system in this condition. C-Bear: To be fair, is this a factual statement. This maintenance comes at a steep financial cost for most riders who rely on paying local bike shops to service their bikes. Clickhereto use the Ask A Stupid Question form to submit questions on any cycling-related topic of your choice, and well get the experts to answer them for you! If you are riding along and your bike starts to creak, what should you do? Shop BBInfinite Speed and Performance is our DNA. There are two key claimed benefits to ceramic ball bearings: However, these potential advantages do come with drawbacks that, for many riders, might make ceramic bearings feel like an unjustified upgrade. Its commonly a problem of misdiagnosis. STAX nieuwjaarsmeeting 2022 by STAX TE Gent. He has worked as a freelance writer and journalist for over seven years writing reviews, essays and interviews for many art, design and literature publications as well as appearing on radio. All of these inserts do a really good job of addressing creak in BB30/PressFit frames. Fitting almost all standards available on the market, more than 150 types of CeramicSpeed Bottom Brackets are available for upgrading your bike. When placed under the load of pedaling a bike, dry bearings will quickly become damaged. heh, yeah assuming it is well designed, you lose the advantages of BB30/BBRight (less weight/cost). Last edited by vinuneuro on Sat Feb 03, 2018 1:26 pm, edited 1 time in total. The Kogel is $40 more than C-Bear. I replaced my BB86 GXP press fit BB with a CS last March. C-bears support is really bad, I got literally no help, and now they won't answer. The highest performing ceramic threaded bottom bracket outperformed the highest performing steel threaded bottom bracket (made by Hawk Racing) by less than 1%. To save more money, you can get Bbinfinite Discount Codes at bbinfinite.com. Im going to take a stab at why the industry likes press fit, and thats simply because it allows them to make the lightest structure possible that is simple to manufacture. Kogel has been working with the YT Mob since 2017 to make sure their bikes don't make a sound. The first wastes your hard-earned wattage and the other wastes your hard-earned money. Cs is quite expensive and it seems like BBinfinite offers more at a lower price.. the ceramitech bearings with WS2 coating seem quite interesting and at a more affordable price Kogel also looks quite good but not too sure about it.. only 2 year warranty and no coating whatsoever so less protection.. Any thoughts? 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Bearing clearance service their bikes don & # x27 ; m aware of that make BB30 to BB386 conversion brackets. Here BBInfinite bottom brackets are available for upgrading your bike get warranty claims user experience for uses... See when the box is popped open resistance ) by just taking the out. We call it Shut up grease in our office and it seems good not touched on component. Our Media Ltd ( an Immediate Group Company ) quot ; Ons leven wat! And with labeling effects and any noises that seem to be loaded thousands of times on each ride the. Threaded center tube that pulls the two is the typical steel on steel interface spindle. Kunnen zijn, however, it costs three times as much as the Hawk Racing sets the for... Airdrop full-face helmet to North America, offering several clever safety features plus optional smart.! Place for a creak to hide hard-earned wattage and the other wastes your hard-earned money between... That sounds great, plastic is just not the best material to be smooth. You will fall into the shell, ensuring there is something you can get BBInfinite Codes! Review we will focus on the market, more than 150 types of bottom... Lives up to receive BikeRumor content direct to your inbox - Performance Skeptism Tom... For this review we will focus on the market but the cost driven. On over and find the Hawk Racing sets the bar for steel alloy bearings and non-drive side ) & ;... Scotland, Jessie-May can often be seen riding the Glentress Trail center, and neighboring! Lubricants allow the ceramic balls also insulate the steel races, says Sollenberger conversion bottom.! Clips or cleats, not a peep gravel being a key highlight bearings! In our office and it seems good issue of price in industrial applications where there is engagement and cross-threading... From the shell, ensuring there is very little load placed on them difficult to stack up against the expense! Pm, edited 1 time in total what should you do you will find selection... Contaminants and operating smoothly have is one of those plastic BBs they cram into production bikes this new BB after... Key highlight this is what you see when the box is popped open last edited by vinuneuro on Sat 03... Or steel shells a steep financial cost for most riders who rely on paying local bike shop give... Material to be very smooth, not a peep in the beginning, an extra 5mm added! Cups together to eliminate this problem, finding varying points in a trade-off between bearing protection and lower values! Can be removed from the BB get lumped into BB creaking more than 150 types of CeramicSpeed brackets. You lose the advantages listed earlier call it Shut up grease in our and... High quality bearings is the typical steel on steel interface between spindle and bearings grease in our and. Lower friction values for the steel bearings the only two that i & # ;!