[97] Finally, the Cyclopedia of Biblical, Theological and Ecclesiastical Literature provides perhaps the best explanation (emphasis ours): Ahijah the Pelonite appears in 2 Samuel 23:34 as Eliam the son of Ahithophel the Gilonite, of which the former is a corruption; Ahijah forming the first part of Ahithophel, annd [sic] Pelonite and Gilonite differing only by and [98]. If we add these numbers together, we determine that Solomon was around 911 years old. David also prayed to God to confuse the wicked, [and] confound their words (55:9) and that God would bring down the wicked into the pit of decay (55:23). Using Psalm 55:23, it would mean that Ahithophel could not have gone past the age of 45 years (note again that this is the conservative estimate). Six times in one paragraph (vv. That Ahitophel is the subject of Psalm 55:12-14; Psalm 55:20-21, is contrary to all we know of the history of the rebellion of Absalom (, There is no hint that the writer is a king whose authority is threatened by a formidable insurrection. This cannot refer to Absalom. The reason for this was: [f]or the Lord had determined to frustrate the good advice of Ahithophel in order to bring disaster on Absalom.. Since David died when he was 70 years old, it means that he was 50 years old when Bathsheba (911 years old) gave birth to Solomon. you have contributed so much great eye opening articles making Muslims and Christians aware of such controversial subjects. Based on the example of Barzillai, 80 years seems to have been the upper limit of life in Davids time. [13] Most commentaries also share this view, including Barnes Notes on the Bible,[14] Coffmans Commentaries on the Bible,[15] the Expository Notes by Dr. Thomas Constable,[16] E.W. Michal (/mxl/; Hebrew: [mial], Greek: ) was, according to the first Book of Samuel, a princess of the United Kingdom of Israel; the younger daughter of King Saul, she was the first wife of David (1 Samuel 18:2027), who later became king, first of Judah, then of Israel. (Now she had been purifying herself after her monthly period.) [74] https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H5288&t=KJV, [75] https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H7390&t=KJV, [76] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/jfu/2-chronicles-24.html#15, [79] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque. affording him the opportunity to frustrate the counsel of Ahithophel (15:31-37). If we read 2 Samuel 12, when Nathan the prophet came to David, he provided the parable of the rich man and the poor man as a way to trap David into confessing his sin. This is where Psalm 55 comes in. on 2 Samuel 11:3, and 1 Chronicles 3:5) is that the two Eliams are the same person. However, Absalom is not named nor is he even hinted at. I swear on your very life,[d] I will not do that!. Called Ammiel, 1 Chronicles 3:5. Subjects > Arts & Entertainment > Movies & Television. The world was vastly different back then. Bathsheba would have been between 16 and 19, because she was doing the ritual bath outlined in Leviticus 15::19-30 for women who have their period already (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus+15%3A19-30&version=NIV). for so we find with David, king of Israel, who learned from Ahitophel no more than two things, yet called him his master, his guide and his beloved friend, as it is said, But it was you, a man mine equal, my guide and my beloved friend (Psalms 55:14)., [52] https://biblehub.com/commentaries/psalms/55-23.htm, [53] https://biblehub.com/commentaries/psalms/55-23.htm, [54] https://biblehub.com/commentaries/gill/psalms/55.htm, [55] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/jtc/psalms-55.html#23, [56] https://biblehub.com/commentaries/clarke/psalms/55.htm, So we find, if there be an appointed time to man upon earth, beyond which he cannot pass; yet he may so live as to provoke the justice of God to cut him off before he arrives at that period; yea, before he has reached half way to that limit. This is not an easy story to tell to children and it is important not to tell it in a way that is too mature for their understanding. That Ahitophel is the subject of Psalm 55:12-14; Psalm 55:20-21, is contrary to all we know of the history of the rebellion of Absalom (https://biblehub.com/commentaries/ellicott/psalms/55.htm). Furthermore, according to 2 Samuel 15:31, upon finding out about Ahithophel, David prayed to God to: turn Ahithophels counsel into foolishness.. While the enemies are not named, a man like myself, my companion, my close friend, with whom I enjoyed sweet fellowship. WebChapter 1: Women of Faith and Courage Chapter 2: EveFirst Woman in Creation Chapter 3: SarahWife and Mother of Patriarchs Chapter 4: LeahLoved by God Chapter 5: TamarAncestress of the Lord Jesus Christ Chapter 6: Deborah, JaelFearless for God Chapter 7: BathshebaWife and Mother of Kings Chapter 8: Mary of NazarethMother [68] Similarly, Smiths Bible Dictionary states that he was approximately 32 years old and died around 1023 BCE (emphasis ours): a native of Giloh, was a privy councillor of David, whose wisdom was highly esteemed, though his name had an exactly opposite signification. It was during Davids years as a fugitive from Saul that he met a lovely woman named Abigail. And the claim that Allah is a moon God has been debunked many times. The oldest man in the Bible, after the patriarchs, was Jehoiada, who supposedly died at the age of 130 (2 Chronicles 24:15). Log in. [76] Moreover, he did not live in the time of David but more than 100 years after him. Web28 Then King David answered, Call Bathsheba to me. So she came into the king's presence and stood before the king. Third, if Ahijah is an alternate name for Eliam, it still does not refute the claim that Eliam was the son of Ahithophel and the father of Bathsheba, simply because the Chronicler does not provide any additional information. Other commentaries, such as those of Matthew Poole. how old was bathsheba when she met david The man said, She is Bathsheba, the daughter of Eliam and the wife of Uriah the Hittite.. It is omitted in the list of 1 Chronicles 11:1-47, but is now probably discernible as AHIJAH the Pelonite (1 Chronicles 11:36) (see Kennicott, Dissertation, p. 207). Less than eight years old. She was eight when she had her first child. (Talmud Tractate Sanhedrin 69b). A child who died in infancy without a name. David considered that the punishment for their crime of adultery, and Uriahs judicial murder. The seco Regardless, most sources reasonably identify the two Eliams as the same person, including Naves Topical Bible,[82] Eastons Bible Dictionary,[83] the American Tract Society Bible Dictionary,[84] Faussets Bible Dictionary,[85] the Holman Bible Dictionary,[86] Hastings Dictionary of the Bible,[87] and the Cyclopedia of Biblical, Theological and Ecclesiastical Literature. A minority of scholars questioned the application of the psalm to Ahithophel. 11-18), God says of the future Israelite kings, he will take.. What did Davids actions cost Bathsheba? The name Eliam is only mentioned twice in the entire Bible, and both instances occur in 2 Samuel. Other commentators also explain the verse this way. The Age Of Rebecca When She Married Isaac - Biblical Perspective, The Shocking Truth About Bathshebas Marriage to David in the Bible. (2Samuel 16:23) (B.C. as Bathsheba was described as having met King David after stepping out of the bath. If the historical David (peace be upon him) had indeed married Bathsheba at such a young age (without committing adultery), the marriage would not have been consummated until she was physically mature, which would have been at the onset of puberty. Thus, he went back to his home and hanged himself (2 Samuel 17:23). As shown, David was declaring that those who had betrayed him and were trying to kill him will not live out half their days. In my view, we should leave it to the experts (e.g., physicians and psychologists) to determine what is an appropriate age for maturity, if there is one. [80] Some others do question the identification of Bathshebas father with Eliam the son of Ahithophel but do not provide concrete evidence. Only a minority of scholarly sources questioned this attribution, but the reasons they provided were weak (see note #49). This is not the Muslims problem because we do not believe in the Bible as a reliable source of information. The success of Absalom would probably have been fatal to Bath-sheba; it would certainly have barred Solomon, Ahithophels great-grandson, from the throne. This illustrates that Ahithophel was probably a young man (Source: This brings us to the most crucial point of our academic journey of determining Ahithophels age. (2 Samuel 11:24) David didnt invite Bathsheba. [73] Sanhedrin 69b, https://www.sefaria.org/Sanhedrin.69b.11?lang=bi. The Babylonian Talmud states that (emphasis ours): Bathsheba gave birth to Solomon when she was six, because a woman is stronger and can conceive at an earlier age. In fact, the ages of women are not mentioned except in a few places (e.g., the age of Sarah when she gave birth to Isaac). This illustrates that Ahithophel was probably a young man (Source: https://bibleatlas.org/giloh.htm). It reads like a song of the time of Absalom and Ahithophel. Brother can you refute this also. [2] Thus, Christians will reject the estimation of Abishag and Marys ages (approximately 12 years) because the Bible does not specifically state it and because the estimate comes from Jewish commentaries or historical evidence or even the early church fathers and not from the Biblical text.[3]. In turn, to determine her age at the time of Solomons (David and Bathshebas second son) birth, we need to first determine Solomons age at the time of Ahithophels death. Bible: Child Marriage in Ancient Israelite times Paedophilia? This tends to be the go-to argument for problematic verses. [80] For example, see the Morrish Bible Dictionary, https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/mbd/e/eliam-.html. He could have been as old as 11 years if we assume that the four years in 2 Samuel 15:7 refers to the time from Absaloms return from Geshur (2+3+2+4=11). We have already seen evidence in a previous article that the marriage was Biblically valid. By the way, I made a website and I have debunked the claim which you have made Allah the Moon God. My bad. An older king could certainly have a younger counselor, and since early marriages were very common, it is not surprising for a 3040-year-old man to have grandchildren. Thus, Bathsheba could have been around 12-14 years old at the time of the birth of Solomon, which means that she was around 10-12 years old at the time David first encountered her. One of Davids faithful soldiers (2 Samuel 23:39. Hushai the Arkite was the kings confidant. Oops, Im sorry, I thought you were Christian. And also, I wanna say that I bave wxplained that khayrul makereen does not in no way means best of deceivers and I have explained that Khayrul Makereen means something honorable and something good. Eliam, in turn, was the son of Ahitophel the Gilonite (2 Samuel 23:34). Even knowing she was According to the chronology of 2 Samuel 1315, two years had passed since Amnon had raped his half-sister Tamar (Absaloms sister),[70] when after killing Amnon, Absalom fled to Geshur, where he lived for 3 years. Here are the search results of the thread how old was bathsheba when she met This is confirmed by most dictionaries, including Smiths Bible Dictionary,[6] the American Tract Society Bible Dictionary,[7] Fausetts Bible Dictionary,[8] the Holman Bible Dictionary,[9] Hastings Bible Dictionary,[10] the Morrish Bible Dictionary,[11] the Peoples Dictionary of the Bible,[12] and the Cyclopedia of Biblical, Theological and Ecclesiastical Literature. Moreover, I showed that when Jesus was a 12-year old boy, his parents took him to the Passover festival, as the law required for boys his age. Add an answer. Nathans rebuke places the entire blame on David, and not on Bathsheba. The Bible says, And the woman was intelligent and beautiful in appearance (1 Sam. In other words, you can talk to younger children about David treating Bathsheba like she was his Was David not praying to God for this to happen? (2Samuel 16:23), So, if Ahithophel was less than 40 years of age at the time of his death (let us conservatively assume he was. Since Bathsheba could not have been older than 20 at the time (since Ahithophel was 39 years old and Eliam was probably in his late 20s), which means that at the time of Solomons birth, she was between 911 years old, with 11 being the conservative estimate based on the conservative estimate for Solomons age (9 years). Bathsheba couldnt say no to King David any more than an enslaved Sally Hemmings could say no to Thomas Jefferson. This is the thing that really hurt David, is that Absalom had turned against him., [35] https://www.studylight.org/commentary/psalms/55-13.html, as mine equal: i.e. And my master Joab and my masters troops are camping in the open field. Grants Commentary on the Bible,[23] Alexander McLarens Expositions of Holy Scripture,[24] R.A Torreys Treasury of Scripture Knowledge,[25] The Biblical Illustrator,[26] and The Pulpit Commentary.[27]. Hehehe, you guys are really funny. WebAbigail (Hebrew: , Modern: Avgayl, Tiberian: Aayl) was an Israelite woman in the Hebrew Bible married to Nabal; she married the future King David after Nabal's death (1 Samuel 25). The reality is that they were the most likely the same person. Yes, this is certainly possible, but where is the evidence from the Bible? 12 Then David told Uriah, Stay here one more day. The Shocking Truth About Bathshebas Marriage to David in the How could they both be alive in 1 Chronicles 27 when Ahithophel supposedly committed suicide in 2 Samuel 17? Interestingly, the inspired text states that Ahithophels advice to Absalom was good but that Absalom instead chose to follow the bad advice of Hushai the Arkite (2 Samuel 17:14), who was in fact a double-agent sent by David. The traditional ascription to David cannot on any ground be maintained. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. This view was based on the Quran, which states regarding the orphans who have not reached the marriageable age (emphasis ours): And do not give the weak-minded your property, which Allah has made a means of sustenance for you, but provide for them with it and clothe them and speak to them words of appropriate kindness. But what if we can use the Bible to reliably estimate the age of another famous female character in the Bible: But how did the rabbis come to this conclusion if the Bible does not directly provide such information? The marriages of Uriah and David did not seem to bother anyone, including Yahweh. Hebr. Died at 70 years of age. The couple had concluded the marriage contract when Aisha was only six but had waited to consummate the marriage until she reached physical maturity.. Furthermore, as stated, David himself was 70 years old at the time of his death. They will vociferously deny that Bathsheba was around 7 years old (or perhaps as old as 9) when she first encountered David and they will deny that she was the granddaughter of Ahithophel. First, the account in Chronicles omits the sordid stories of David and Bathsheba and Absaloms revolt, and only mentions some characters in passing, so we do not have much information about Bathsheba, Eliam, or Ahithophel. All which agrees to Achitophel., [47] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/whe/psalms-55.html#13, From this rapid survey of the general calamity, David turns to the chief supporter of the rebellion, his former chief counsellor, Ahithophel. Thus, Solomon was 911 years old at the time of his great-grandfathers death. As Jonathan Brown explains: the medieval ulama considered the point at which a girl was fit for intercourse to be too varied to be firmly legislated for. Note that this estimate is higher than the age assigned to Ahithophel by the Jewish sages. In his commentary, Ibn Kathir stated that the age of marriage coincides with the age of puberty. Indeed, the account in 2 Samuel 1517 shows a man who was quite active, thereby suggesting that he was not an old man. And, if we allow the psalm to be Davids, we can scarcely give any other explanation. As for Davids age, it can be estimated based on the account of Solomons ascension to the throne of Israel in 1 Chronicles 29. Table 1: Age comparisons between David, Ahithophel, Solomon, and Bathsheba at different times. 1 King David was now an old man, 7 Adonijah met with Joab the son of Zeruiah and Abiathar the priest and asked them if they would help him become king. (LogOut/ I (Grand Rapids, Michigan: Kregel Publications, 1988), p. 439. You Muslims believe Muhammad is a role model for all times!, In my view, we should leave it to the experts (e.g., physicians and psychologists) to determine what is an appropriate age for maturity, if there is one. That Ahithophel had then a married grand-daughter is less probable than that there were in Israel two Eliams.[81]. Note that the Bible describes Bathsheba at this time as very beautiful (2 Samuel 11:2) and David was overcome with feelings of lust for her! [66] Saul also lived into his seventies. Or examples of sex slaves in the Bible (I remember Hagar and Jacobs slaves were used for sex to have babies). Ahithophel was known as Davids counsellor, [41] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/pmc/psalms-55.html#23, And the prayer here used is followed with another in the history, to turn the counsel of Ahitophel, an enemy of his, but held in great reputation, into foolishness., [42] https://www.studylight.org/commentary/psalms/55-13.html, My guide my counselor; as Ahithophel was to David (1 Samuel 15:12; 1 Samuel 16:23)., [43] https://biblehub.com/commentaries/kad/psalms/55.htm, This Old Testament Judas is none other than Ahithphel, the right hand of Absalom., [44] https://biblehub.com/commentaries/lange/psalms/55.htm, In retaining this reference to David, however, we are not to think of Doeg, Ps. Based on this seemingly contradictory information, let us follow the conservative route, as always, and assume that Solomon was around 20 years old at the time of his ascension. While the enemies are not named, it is clear from the context that David is speaking of Absaloms revolt and, more specifically, of Ahithophels betrayal. He [David] now remembers that, at the heart of Absaloms rebellion, giving it direction and force, indeed making it possible, is Ahithophel., [33] https://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/spurgeon_charles/tod/ps055.cfm?a=533001, It would be idle to fix a time, and find an occasion for this Psalm with any dogmatism. The woman was very beautiful, and David sent someone to find out about her. This cannot refer to Absalom. Psalm 55 is a prayer of David asking God to save him from his enemies. The Mount of Olives is adjacent to the city of Jerusalem, so David would have had a good view of the city and thus, assuming he wrote the psalm, could have been describing his feelings at the time. There is disagreement among the experts as to what age that should be. Know that this is true that women conceive at an earlier age, as Bathsheba had already given birth to a child from David before giving birth to Solomon[4], But how did the rabbis come to this conclusion if the Bible does not directly provide such information? WebBathsheba was probably minding her own business when David's eyes spied her and what he saw he wanted. It should be noted that the Bible does not state Bathsheba was _ years old. Furthermore, God approved of David remaining married to Bathsheba, which resulted in the birth of Solomon, whom God loved. So says the Benson Commentary (emphasis ours): Not half so long as men ordinarily live, and as they, by the course of nature, might have lived, and as they themselves expected to live, but shall be cut off by Gods just judgment, by an untimely and violent death.[52]. [2] Of course, in the previous article, I showed evidence from within the Bible. 2 One evening, David got up from his couch and was pacing back and forth on the roof of the palace. The Pulpit Commentary adds (emphasis ours): Of course, the statement is not intended for a universal law, and indeed was probably pointed especially at the bloody and deceitful men of whom the psalmist had been speaking. It only criticizes the explanation of Ahithophels possible motive for helping Absalom (i.e., revenge for Davids sinful act with Bathsheba and the murder of Uriah the Hittite). 1 Chronicle 3:5 states that Bathsheba was the daughter of Ammiel, which scholars have explained was simply the reversed form of Eliam. The fact is that the context fits well with Absaloms revolt and especially with Ahithophels betrayal of David. But as demonstrated above, all the major commentators, both Jewish and Christian, agreed that the subject of the psalm was the Davids anguish for Ahithophels betrayal. Bathsheba had been married before she married David and she is the mother of He states that: an arbitrary age cutoff necessarily allows incompetent people to gain rights and privileges they probably shouldnt have.[101]. Read 1 Corinthians 10:13. Change), You are commenting using your Facebook account. And test the orphans [in their abilities] until they reach marriageable age. It was most appropriate for the bride, groom and brides guardian to determine the appropriate age for intercourse. A girls period can start at different ages, so thats not a good argument. [13] https://www.studylight.org/encyclopedias/mse/a/ahithophel.html, He probably hoped to wield a greater sway under the vain prince than he had done under David, against whom it is also possible that he entertained a secret malice on account of his granddaughter Bathsheba (2 Samuel 11:3, comp. How[c] could I go home and eat, drink, and have sex with my wife? And Uriahs death was no accident; it was murder in the first degree. Uriah the Hittite and Eliam, being both of the kings guard (consisting of 37 officers), were intimate, and Uriah married the daughter of his brother officer (https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/fbd/a/ahithophel.html). Same person your very life, [ d ] I will not do!. ] Sanhedrin 69b, https: //www.studylight.org/dictionaries/mbd/e/eliam-.html intelligent and beautiful in appearance ( 1 Sam more 100! Drink, and Bathsheba at different ages, so thats not a good argument spied her and what saw... Is that the two Eliams. [ 81 ] [ 66 ] Saul also lived into seventies! Was the daughter of Ammiel, which resulted in the open field couch and was back. I swear on your very life, [ d ] I will not do that! approved of how old was bathsheba when she met david! Should be noted that the two Eliams are the same person described as met. 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